Blog Sustainable Work: Looking ...

Sustainable Work: Looking Beyond Burnout with Jen Fisher and Dr. Kara Mohr

Last updated:

February 4, 2025

Darcy Jacobsen

Burnout has been dominating workplace conversations these days – and for good reason. While, in years past, burnout was seen more as an individual challenge, we now recognize it as a systemic issue woven into the fabric of how we work and one that threatens not only our personal wellbeing but everything about how work gets done. 

Dr. Kara Mohr, a renowned behavior change expert, and Jen Fisher, a leader in workplace wellbeing, will be addressing this pressing issue on our Workhuman Live 2025 stage. Their session, Sustainable Work: Because Burnout Isn’t a Career Goal, will challenge conventional approaches to workplace wellbeing and provide leaders with strategies to drive meaningful, lasting change.

We recently had a chance to sit down with Jen and Kara to talk about some of their insights on the root causes of burnout, how to design work for sustainability, and the role of leadership in fostering resilience and wellbeing. 

Here’s what they had to say.

Q&A with Jen Fisher and Dr. Kara Mohr

Q: What are the primary organizational factors contributing to burnout? Do you see those shifting in 2025?

Jen Fisher: The roots of burnout extend far beyond individual resilience – they’re embedded in our organizational DNA. Today’s primary drivers stem from a fundamental gap in leadership development and organizational expectations. While we extensively train leaders in financial, operational, and technical skills, we’ve never established wellbeing intelligence as a core leadership requirement or capability.

This gap is particularly telling because leaders themselves often experience the very factors driving organizational burnout: overwhelming workloads, limited autonomy, an inability to influence systemic change, eroding relationships, and growing disengagement. Organizations continue to operate with unsustainable workloads, unclear expectations, and insufficient recovery time – not because leaders don’t care but because they haven’t been equipped with the skills to recognize and address these as systemic issues rather than individual failures.

Looking ahead to 2025, this challenge intensifies. AI integration, skill evolution pressures, and increasingly complex work arrangements are adding new layers of stress. Without developing wellbeing intelligence as a core leadership capability and expectation, these challenges will only amplify existing systemic problems. We need to invest in helping leaders develop the skills to read early warning signs of systemic burnout and redesign work systems that enable human flourishing.

Dr. Kara Mohr: I agree – burnout typically arises from chronic workplace stress that remains unaddressed. Among the primary organizational factors contributing to burnout are imbalanced workloads and unrealistic deadlines, which subject employees to prolonged periods of stress. A lack of control in decision-making and rigid workplace structures further diminish employees’ sense of empowerment, while poor communication and inadequate leadership support erode trust and morale. Role ambiguity – where job responsibilities are unclear or conflicting – creates confusion and frustration, and a lack of recognition for employee contributions diminishes engagement and commitment. 

In 2025, these factors are likely to increase in response to external pressures such as economic uncertainty, remote work dynamics, and the rapid pace of technological advancement. Rather than address the root causes within an organization leading to burnout, many leaders focus entirely on trying to keep up with metrics amidst the change — further exacerbating the problem.

Q: Are certain industries or roles more prone to burnout than others – and why?

Dr. Kara Mohr: Certain industries and roles are inherently more prone to burnout due to their demands. Healthcare professionals, for example, face high levels of emotional labor, life-and-death decision-making, and chronic understaffing. Educators often contend with resource constraints, emotional demands, and relentless performance expectations. In the tech sector, the “always-on” culture, intense workloads, and the fast pace of innovation exacerbate stress. Customer service roles involve repetitive tasks and high emotional labor, particularly when dealing with dissatisfied clients. 

Meanwhile, startups and high-growth firms often demand long hours and involve ambiguous roles due to limited resources. Burnout is especially prevalent in roles that combine high emotional labor or unrealistic/unclear expectations with insufficient recovery time or support.

Jen Fisher: While burnout affects all sectors, some industries face unique pressures that demand higher levels of wellbeing intelligence. Healthcare professionals battle emotional intensity and life-critical decisions. Technology workers navigate constant innovation pressure. Professional services juggle complex client demands with billable targets. Educators shoulder expanding societal responsibilities.

What’s missing in these high-risk industries isn’t just resources – it’s leaders with the wellbeing intelligence to recognize and address systemic stressors. The common thread isn’t just high workload or emotional demands – it’s often a lack of systemic understanding of how organizational decisions and designs impact human sustainability.

Q: How can companies – and, more specifically, leaders – assess whether systemic issues, rather than individual factors, are leading to burnout?

Dr. Kara Mohr: Leaders must adopt wellbeing intelligence, which is the ability to identify and distinguish between individual, micro, and macro issues contributing to burnout. Rarely do you find individuals who are prone to burnout solely on their own individual behaviors and habits. Instead, there are likely systemic issues driving exhaustion and cynicism, such as excessive workloads, micromanagement, rigid work structures, poor communication, role ambiguity, and unrealistic performance expectations.  Leaders can use engagement surveys, employee turnover, and declining performance as indicators that these factors are in play.

Jen Fisher: Wellbeing intelligence starts with the ability to distinguish between individual and systemic issues. Key indicators of systemic problems include consistent patterns of turnover across teams, widespread feedback about workload regardless of individual capacity, increased mental health leave usage, and declining engagement scores that persist despite individual interventions.

Leaders with high wellbeing intelligence look beyond surface-level symptoms. They recognize that when high performers across multiple teams struggle with similar issues, or when weekend work becomes normalized, the problem lies in the system, not the individuals.

Q: What are some examples of innovative work design strategies that have successfully reduced burnout?

Jen Fisher: Effective work design requires wellbeing intelligence at its core. The most successful approaches move beyond superficial flexibility to fundamentally rethink how work gets done. This includes implementing true flexible work arrangements that account for human rhythms, creating deliberate space for recovery and learning, and measuring success through sustainable performance rather than just output.

Organizations with high wellbeing intelligence build systems that naturally enable human flourishing rather than requiring constant individual adaptation to broken systems.

Dr. Kara Mohr: Innovative work design strategies have been successful in reducing burnout. For instance, implementing a four-day workweek can boost productivity and reduce stress by allowing employees more time for recovery. Job crafting, which allows employees to shape their tasks to align with their strengths and interests, increases engagement and satisfaction. 

Flexible work models, including hybrid arrangements and asynchronous schedules, empower employees to balance professional and personal demands. Peer support programs, such as mentorship or employee resource groups, foster stronger networks and reduce feelings of isolation. However, what is really needed are leaders with wellbeing intelligence who understand that a one-size-fits-all approach won’t work. These leaders should identify ways to flex according to individuals and job demands in real time and empower individuals and teams to do the same.

Q: How can organizations balance employee wellbeing with productivity goals?

Jen Fisher: Our fixation with “productivity” reveals a deeper problem: we’re still using metrics designed for measuring machine output during the Industrial Revolution. This outdated paradigm fails to capture the complex, creative, and deeply human nature of today’s work. When we obsess over productivity metrics, we’re essentially trying to measure human effectiveness with tools designed for assembly lines.

Leaders with high wellbeing intelligence understand that we need to fundamentally shift from productivity to work effectiveness. This means evaluating how well work serves human and organizational needs, not just how much output we can generate.

Dr. Kara Mohr: Balancing employee wellbeing with productivity goals requires a shift in perspective. Organizations should focus on employee effectiveness rather than hours worked. Integrating wellness and engagement metrics into key performance indicators (KPIs) signals the importance of employee wellbeing. Encouraging recovery and downtime can help prevent long-term fatigue while investing in skill development enables employees to work more efficiently and with greater satisfaction.

Q: How can emerging technologies like AI be leveraged to reduce operational stress and improve employee satisfaction?

Dr. Kara Mohr: Emerging technologies, such as AI, offer significant opportunities to reduce burnout and improve employee satisfaction. By automating repetitive tasks, AI reduces workload and frees employees to focus on more meaningful work. AI-driven analytics can identify burnout trends by analyzing patterns in communication, workload, and engagement data, enabling proactive interventions. Personalized development platforms powered by AI recommend tailored learning paths and wellness resources, helping employees build resilience and stay motivated. Virtual assistants, meanwhile, can assist with scheduling and prioritization, easing cognitive load and reducing operational stress.

Jen Fisher: While AI presents enormous opportunities, we’re missing a crucial parallel conversation: As we develop our AI agenda, we must simultaneously advance our human intelligence agenda. This means understanding how to enhance uniquely human capabilities – empathy, complex problem-solving, creative thinking, and emotional intelligence – alongside technological advancement.

Success in the AI age won’t just be about technological adoption – it will be about organizations that can skillfully balance artificial and human intelligence while maintaining focus on human sustainability and flourishing.

Q: How can leaders model behaviors that promote mental health and resilience?

Jen Fisher: Wellbeing intelligence manifests in how leaders show up daily. It’s not enough to talk about wellbeing – leaders must embody it. This means taking visible time off and truly disconnecting, speaking openly about personal wellbeing practices, and demonstrating that success doesn’t require sacrifice of health or relationships.

Dr. Kara Mohr: Leaders play a critical role in shaping workplace culture and can model behaviors that promote mental health and resilience. As John Maxwell said, “More is caught than taught,” meaning everyone is watching what the leader is doing. A leader must embody wellbeing practices. Leaders should visibly take breaks and vacations where they fully disconnect to normalize these practices and encourage their teams to do the same.  Other practices include limiting after-hours communication, demonstrating respect for work-life integration, setting clear boundaries and level-setting expectations, and encouraging autonomy and flexibility where possible. Empathy is essential, as actively listening to employees’ concerns and addressing them with compassion fosters trust and psychological safety.

Q: How can emerging technologies like AI be leveraged to reduce operational stress and improve employee satisfaction?

Jen Fisher: Building organizational wellbeing intelligence requires a comprehensive approach to leadership development. Leaders need training that goes beyond stress management to understand the complex interplay between organizational systems and human sustainability. This includes learning to spot early warning signs of systemic issues, facilitating authentic wellbeing conversations, and designing work processes that naturally support human flourishing.

The path forward is clear: organizations must move beyond surface-level wellness programs to develop true wellbeing intelligence at every level. This isn’t just about preventing burnout – it’s about creating workplaces where both people and organizations can thrive sustainably. The future belongs to organizations that can embed wellbeing intelligence into their DNA, creating systems that naturally enable human flourishing while delivering sustainable results.

Dr. Kara Mohr: Again, I think we can end with Jen’s response above 😊. To build a sustainable and healthy workplace, leadership training needs to move past surface-level wellness programs and embrace a comprehensive approach to wellbeing intelligence. This means teaching leaders to see the connection between the systems within an organization and the long-term health and success of the people within it. This is more than just teaching leaders how to avoid burnout for themselves or their team, it’s about equipping them with the skills to create an environment where people and the organization can truly thrive together.

Attend Their Sustainable Work Session at Workhuman Live 2025

As Dr. Kara Mohr and Jen Fisher both point out, burnout is a significant and growing threat to productivity, morale, and overall wellbeing in our organizations. Yet most organizations still struggle to address its true causes, focusing instead on surface-level solutions that fail to make a lasting impact.

In their session at Workhuman 2025, Sustainable Work: Because Burnout Isn’t a Career Goal, they will unpack the complex, systemic roots of burnout and share actionable strategies for creating sustainable workplaces. Attendees will learn:

  • Why current workplace wellness initiatives often fall short and how to move beyond the “self-care” narrative
  • The real sources of burnout, from organizational culture to operational design
  • Practical strategies to prioritize employee wellbeing, including innovative work design and leadership approaches that foster human flourishing

This session is a big opportunity to join the conversation with two leading voices in workplace wellbeing. Don’t miss their compelling insights – currently scheduled for Wednesday, May 14, 2025, from 1:30–2:20 PM. Add it to your agenda now, and don’t miss this transformative discussion.

If you haven’t registered for Workhuman Live yet, it’s not too late!

Join us at Workhuman Live 2025 in Colorado to be inspired by fearless thought leaders like Jen Fisher and Dr. Kara Mohr, and learn how to protect against burnout in your organization.  

About Darcy Jacobsen

Darcy is a passionate storyteller and champion of workforce transformation, human connection, and recognition-driven culture. As an author on the Workhuman Live Blog, she loves to connect deep research insights with modern workplace dynamics to uncover what really drives engagement, belonging, and happiness at work. With a background in communications and a master’s in medieval history, she brings a unique perspective to her writing, taking deep dives into all topics around organizational psychology and the science of gratitude.

Do it live

Passionate about the future of HR? Turn ideas into action at the award-winning Workhuman Live conference.

Learn more

Experience HR's most awarded conference

Register for Workhuman Live today to join a movement like no other.
Bizbash
One of the 10 most innovative meetings of 2022
Marcom Awards 2024
Platinum Award:
Team Achievement
Experience Design Awards 2024
Best Demo Zone:
Honorable Mention
Experience Design Awards 2024
Best Overall Event Branding:
Honorable Mention
TITAN Business Awards
Platinum Awards:
Best Conference 2024
TITAN Business Awards
Platinum Awards:
Best Customer Engagement Event 2024
TITAN Business Awards
Platinum Awards:
Best Live Event 2024
TITAN Business Awards
Gold Awards:
Best B2B Event 2024
TITAN Business Awards
Gold Awards:
Best Educational Event 2024
Bizbash
One of the 10 most innovative meetings of 2022
Marcom Awards 2024
Platinum Award:
Team Achievement
Experience Design Awards 2024
Best Demo Zone:
Honorable Mention
Experience Design Awards 2024
Best Overall Event Branding:
Honorable Mention
TITAN Business Awards
Platinum Awards:
Best Conference 2024
TITAN Business Awards
Platinum Awards:
Best Customer Engagement Event 2024
TITAN Business Awards
Platinum Awards:
Best Live Event 2024
TITAN Business Awards
Gold Awards:
Best B2B Event 2024
TITAN Business Awards
Gold Awards:
Best Educational Event 2024

Let’s stay CONNECTED

Still mulling it over? We'll send more exciting Workhuman Live announcements to your inbox.

Convince your boss

Need to prove the value of Workhuman Live? We got you.

Download the pitch

Bring your team

Send this to your favorite group chat to make Workhuman Live a shared experience.

Download the teams program

Agenda At-A-Glance

Explore the Workhuman Live one-pager and visualize your journey in seconds.

Download the agenda